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After I am finished with you here, I'll be creating some 'tosses against this D4rk_Jony faggot, in which I will use as spam to wipe hundreds of pages of people talking piss.
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Even though I just used a hadith, how does that make me a Quranist what???
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+ i'm shit at debating
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paganpedo^
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https://www.islamic-relief.org.uk/resources/sahih-bukhari-collection/
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/122705/are-all-the-ahaadeeth-in-saheeh-al-bukhaari-saheeh-sound
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The collection itself is mostly sahih, yes. But when it has contradictions this is when we should appeal to well known historians during the times of the caliphate in which have made books about this including the timeslines. It's not really about denominations here, it's about the reliability of the parties involved.
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This has been debunked:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MiupfAM3Sb5GNC9HkP58MbhYUQe2JW38-W9QuZ9e2o8/edit?tab=t.0
Btw I will be sure to make a response to that one too you fat cuck.
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To be fair, the age of consent in these times was very low so people didn't seem to have a problem with it back then
But that means that Muhammad wasn't the perfect example for ALL of humanity since it seems strange to us that he married a 6 year old girl
No, dumbass, that's not the excuse.
The point is that poverty, war, and instability have abuse in every society that are in these living conditions, not just Muslim ones.
Acting like Islam is the root cause while ignoring the exact same (or worse) rates of abuse in non-Muslim or even secular countries is just brain-dead cherry-picking.
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That's just historically lazy.
That narration became mainstream centuries after the Prophet PBUH's death, it wasn't universally accepted "for thousands of years."
Early historians like Ibn Sa'd, al-Tabari, and others placed Aisha's birth years before Islam, making her closer to 18-19 at consummation. It wasn't a consensus even back then.
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https://youtu.be/uFQPJgWyUfk?si=T0jIB0d7acAMUsRN
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Pedo
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Quoting Surah An-Nisa 4:34 without context is a weak-ass attempt to demonize Islam.
https://www.brandeis.edu/projects/fse/muslim/translation.html#:~:text=So%20women%20who%20are%20virtuous,an%20excuse%20for%20blaming%20them.
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Nobody is "rejecting hadiths" wholesale, you goofy ass edgelord. We're contextualizing a hadith that contradicts multiple other historical facts. That's how real Islamic scholarship works. It's not ONE single narration to approach. You're talking like some fedora-tipping Redditor.
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most Muslims believe that the Sahih Al-Bukhari hadiths are the most reliable source besides the Quran
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also disrespecting Jesus is haram you dumbass mudslime
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also disrespecting Jesus is haram you dumbass mudslime
least clitty leaking christroach
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Remember his username
There's a massive difference between rejecting a hadith out of ego or desire (which is haram) and contextualizing a hadith using the actual science of hadith criticism that scholars have used for centuries. Even Bukhari and Muslim rejected narrations based on contradictions. As for the rest of the Muslims, no they dont believe he was a pedo, they have their own arguments for that. Also for hadiths and historians, both serve different roles in Islamic studies. Hadiths record sayings/actions with isnad (chains of narration). Historians
It isn't sanctioned in the Quran or actual sahih you fat ass mutt.
Keep brapping on Hoags object as you think of yourself as intellectual.
prove it to me then
You didnt even give the reference you retard.
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what is there to contextualize? are those martian years or something?
so they see nothing wrong in having sex with a 9 year old
https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5595
Where's the abuse at retard?
Sahih al-Bukhari 6774
Are you spazzing out? Ibn Jareer al-Tabari, again, this topic in which is debated upon and CONTRADICTED by other Islamic historians, writes in Tarikh al-Rusul wa al-Muluk (vol. 4, p. 50) that all of Abu Bakr's children, including Aisha, were born during the Jahiliyyah-before Islam
The marriage was consummated in 623-624 CE, placing Aisha's age at 18-19, not 9.
No, again, the rest of the Muslims have their owns arguments against this, you can go search up articles written against this.
That's a seperate concept albeit it is a branch to the concept we're conversing upon, when did I say that's invalid you mutt?
Keep brapping faggot, also again, I am saying it inherently calls out something fallacious because it points out something irrational.
This isn't a woman, and this looks to be a punishment for what is a crime in those states.
Islamic countries forbid alcohol and have different punishments for it.
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also Sahih Muslim 1706a says that 80 stripes is the lowest punishment so xher probably got beaten nearly to death
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Sahih Muslim 1706a does mention 80 lashes for alcohol, what? It is under strict conditions because it has to be proven by confession or four eyewitnesses (same standard as zina), and even then, it's carried out in a controlled, and measured way even the Prophet salla Allah `alayhi wa-sallam himself emphasized these lashes must be light and not beating someone "nearly to death". Really shows how weak your position is when you resort to this geg.
You brap blueberry to the TV when it starts playing Blues Clues.
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80 lashes is a fixed Islamic punishment for alcohol-but only when very specific legal conditions are met, like confession or four eyewitnesses. It's not something people just dish out on the street or in their basement after "gooning on wine,"
Prophet Muhammad PBUH didn't create some sadistic bootleg ritual for the lulz. The lashings were done with moderation, AND HE EVEN SAID "If you must strike, do not strike the face, and avoid causing harm."
(Abu Dawud 2142)
Also your "aorta" jab is about a fabricated Christian polemic about the Prophet PBUH's death that even non-Muslim historians reject. Caliphs didn't just rewrite the Sharia on someone's deathbed, what kind of raisin is that? Zero evidence.
And no, extremist groups don't represent normative Islam.
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What??? Calling 80 lashes draconian is subjective moralism geg, and claiming Abu Bakr or the Prophet PBUH gave last-minute "revelations" is PURE FICTION you fat mutt, revelation ended with the Prophet PBUH's death, and no Caliph had authority to create Sharia. And "most early societies", this is just an appeal to tradition fallacy. And as already explained, lashes were carried out under judicial review, with light force, avoiding harm. You're just retaking emotional takes.
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Okay so the main argument here for me and other Muslims who share my perspective are these:
The well-known historian Ibn Jareer al-Tabari writes at page 50 of volume 4 of his 'Book of History': "Abu Bakr married two ladies in the days of ignorance. Fateelah daughter of Abd al-Aza was the first, from whom Abdullah and Asma were born. Umm-i-Rooman was the second, from whom Abd al-Rahman and Aisha were born. All the four children of Abu Bakr were born in the days of ignorance from the above-named two ladies.
It is a well-known fact of history, that Abu Bakr's son Abd al-Rahman fought against the Muslims in the battle of Badr. His age at that time was 21-22 years, and although he was older than Aisha, there is no evidence to show that the difference between their ages was more than three or four years. This fact lends support to the view that Aisha was born four or five years before the Call.
Now we know that Aisha was engaged by prophet Muhammad (p) in around 11th year of call (i.e.around 620 ad ) and consummated by marriage after three years i.e., around 623-624 a.d.. Now do the calculation the calculation . In 623 when Aisha's brother was 21-22 , at that time Aisha (r) was not less than 18-19 years .
Hence when Prophet Muhammad (p) engaged her in 620 ad she was around 16-17 years . Almost after 2-3 years Prophet (p) married her and took her to his home , which tends her age finally around 19
Ismail ibn Kathir - The highly influential shafi school scholar expert on Jurisprudence, History and Quranic interpretation.
1. The well-known historian and scholar 'Allama 'Imad-ud-Deen Ibn Katheer writes in his 'Al-Badayah' about Sayedah Asma' daughter of Abu Bakr' (and we hope Maulana Syed Abul Ala Maududi must have seen it as he referred to 'Al-Badaya' in his article): Asma' died in 73 A.H. at the age of 100 years.
She was ten years older than her sister 'Aisha. Now according to this report 'Asma' would have been 27-28 years old at the time of Hijrah and since she was ten years older than Sayedah 'Aisha, therefore the age of Sayedah 'Aisha would have been 17 or 18 years at the time of Hijrah.
Accordingly, her birth falls about four or five years before the Call, and her age at the time of the consummation of marriage in 2 A.H. will work out to 19-20 years.
OG or remake?
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I mean, Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim both contain a narration where Aisha reportedly says
This hadith is sahih, meaning the chain of narration is sound. But sahih doesn't automatically mean infallible or the only valid account on the matter.
THOUGH, al-Tabari states that all of Abu Bakr's children were born before Islam. Since the marriage was consummated in 623-624, that would make Aisha at least 13-14 at a bare minimum, but more likely 18-19, based on cross-referencing with:
Asma's birth date (595 CE),
Abd al-Rahman's age at Badr (21-22),
The general timeline of the Hijra.
So if multiple independent timelines contradict the hadith. Also Hadith science distinguishes between chain of narration which might be strong AND content which might be historically implausible or contradict other stronger evidences.
i dont think its a coincidence or a mistake that in several hadiths (including sahih ones such as mulim and bukhari) aisha is stated to be 9 at consumation.
geg
I already accepted that if you can doubt hadiths you can doubt that aisha was 9. Do you have any statements from the mainstream islam? Most muslims do not argue about aisha's age, so it would be gemmy to read their arguments that you mentioned previously.
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He compiled reports (akhbar) with full isnads but didn't always pass judgment on their authenticity. He even explicitly stated that he was transmitting what was reported, not necessarily verifying it. All he was doing was transmitting the knowledge, and not really saying that they are trve.
SackjakWABAG seeking attention DNI
and my position was to present as many muslims as possible as pedophile worshippers, even if it meant excluding your version of islam
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Wouldn't the burden of proof be on you?
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Brap?
As in...
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burp^
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It exists, I am the administrator of Brapjak.Farty